(2021-05-27, 18:48:31)marvin.double Wrote: Thank you for your comments John. I have also struggled to use Winlink via and RF gateway. I've had success but more often than not, found the experience inefficient and frustrating. This is one reason I believe that D-RATS offers a simpler more effective way to do email, or messaging via RF locally. Setting up so called RAT-flectors (digital repeaters running on D-RATS) which offer the best of all worlds for digital comm's.

Here are my 10 reasons why GBARC should embrace the use of D-RATS software as opposed to Winlink.

First: RAT-flectors do not need to be on a commercial tower. They can be located on a home QTH in a suitable location. In a home QTH the RAT-flector can be battery powered, and when connected to a solar panel recharged. This would make this small repeater available 24-7-365 with or without mains power.

Second: RAT-flectors can be built using nothing more complex than a Raspberry Pi or any PC running the software, some cheap interface cables and a very basic 2 meter antenna.

Third: the D-RATS software suite includes the digi-peater (RAT-flector) software as part of the FREE program. Those with an advance license could create a cheap digi-peater (RATflector) using the FREE D-RATS software in minutes just by using the FREE software and a cheap 2 meter radio.

Fourth: RAT-flectors can be used on line via the internet and off-line via RF if the internet is unavailable.

Five: D-RATS software has built in email and messaging features which allow for email and messages to be sent and received when the station is active but unintended. These features will work via the internet or via RF connections.

Six: RAT-flectors have "automated" message forwarding capability. This message forwarding capability overcomes the line of sight issues with normal 2 meter transmissions. "Any" station within range, running D-RATS sofware can forward a message across a network of other stations to reach a destination which is out of range to the sender. This feature is not exclusive to RAT-flectors. It is part of the the D-RATS software and will work using any group of radios connected to a computer running D-RATS software. However, an established series of RAT-flectors across a region offers anyone running D-RATS software the ability to send and receive email or SMS type messages, or to use real time chat functions within that network and over a larger distance than would be normally possible because of distance or terrain issues relevant to 2 meters.

Seven: As already noted, RAT-flectors can be online via the internet. Once they are put online they are registered as part of a database of other RAT-flectors and can be made available to other users. In this way a very wide area network of D-RATS users can send and receive email or messages. In the US, certain EmComm groups use this feature to have weekly "regional" meetings which include groups from multiple states.

Eight: Portable RAT-flectors can be built on the cheap. One of more of these could be deployed during an emergency and quickly create a fully digital 2 meter RF network. D-RATS software can transmit and receive email and messages, but, with an internet connection it can also send and receive documents. As an example, the operator of any station can create a shared file folder on their computer. This file folder can then contain forms or documents that can be accessed and retrieved by other stations remotely. Such a function could be invaluable if an operator were not immediately available but the forms or documents were needed by others. So long as the station was on the air, documents could be shared. between stations. Documents can also be sent via RF, however I am not clear if documents can be accessed by another station using only an RF
connection.

Nine: D-RATS software offers members of GBARC an online-offline email and messaging system which is not subject to the reliability issues of Winlink. This system offers value for money for club membership fees and greatly expands digital capabilities for a very lost cost. Having a series of RAT-flectors hosted by club members at key locations across Bruce/Grey offers a clubs specific digital capability ad avoids the high cost of installing a digipeater. If our aging repeaters should fail for any reason, a RAT-flector offers a reliable method of sharing information without the need to have a scheduled net. Information can be shared with other members via messaging, chats or email. Email can be sent via the network and retrieved from an inbox on the receiving stations DRATS email service. While online via the internet, we have the ability to connect to other clubs for regional activities.

Ten: DRATS software is FREE to down load and use. For those who continue to drone on about HAM's being cheap, the word FREE should be attractive. Most of the functionality of DRATS, including creating RAT-flectors can be done at very low cost, and likely with existing bits and pieces of equipment already on hand. The internet connections would be "donated" by volunteers hosting a RAT-flector, however traffic from the DRATS network would not typically dictate any increase in bandwidth or speed. Those wishing to ensure off-grid availability of the RAT-flector for emergency use might wish to also invest in a modest solar panel, charge controller and battery. The cost of such items will not generally be burdensome and might be covered through fund raising activities such as raffles 50/50 draws or other such club activities.

However, it is important to note that a DRATS ad hoc network can be quickly established even in the absence of established RAT-fleactors.

For the benefit of those HAM's who missed by not so subtle attempt to draw attention to the most important part of DRATS software, I repeat for emphasis that it is FREE! Free however does not mean cheap or inadequate. In fact I think the value is so enormous we will be fools not to get it and use it for all the reasons already stated.

Having said all that - because I also know that Winlink is the standard for EmComm, there is a case to be made for combining DRATS via 2 meter networks, as described above with WinLink (possible via peer to peer) for regional comms in a grid down situation. As both programs are free to download and use there should be no barrier for experimenting with this kind of digital communications networking.




This is an excellent video demonstrating how to use Winlink peer to peer with a VARA connection. It covers some of the fine points of peer to peer connections. Winlink is notorious for the challenges one faces using it to connect to Winlink nodes via RF.  Peer to Peer connections may offer a better option when possible.

(2021-05-28, 13:46:31)VA3TS Tom Wrote: I would be interested to know what the actual cost of one station complete and working in CDN$.
One can assume that the 2 meter rig and computer is already purchased. What else is needed?

(2021-05-28, 10:42:03)marvin.double Wrote:

(2021-05-27, 18:48:31)marvin.double Wrote: Thank you for your comments John. I have also struggled to use Winlink via and RF gateway. I've had success but more often than not, found the experience inefficient and frustrating. This is one reason I believe that D-RATS offers a simpler more effective way to do email, or messaging via RF locally. Setting up so called RAT-flectors (digital repeaters running on D-RATS) which offer the best of all worlds for digital comm's.

Here are my 10 reasons why GBARC should embrace the use of D-RATS software as opposed to Winlink.

First: RAT-flectors do not need to be on a commercial tower. They can be located on a home QTH in a suitable location. In a home QTH the RAT-flector can be battery powered, and when connected to a solar panel recharged. This would make this small repeater available 24-7-365 with or without mains power.

Second: RAT-flectors can be built using nothing more complex than a Raspberry Pi or any PC running the software, some cheap interface cables and a very basic 2 meter antenna.

Third: the D-RATS software suite includes the digi-peater (RAT-flector) software as part of the FREE program. Those with an advance license could create a cheap digi-peater (RATflector) using the FREE D-RATS software in minutes just by using the FREE software and a cheap 2 meter radio.

Fourth: RAT-flectors can be used on line via the internet and off-line via RF if the internet is unavailable.

Five: D-RATS software has built in email and messaging features which allow for email and messages to be sent and received when the station is active but unintended. These features will work via the internet or via RF connections.

Six: RAT-flectors have "automated" message forwarding capability. This message forwarding capability overcomes the line of sight issues with normal 2 meter transmissions. "Any" station within range, running D-RATS sofware can forward a message across a network of other stations to reach a destination which is out of range to the sender. This feature is not exclusive to RAT-flectors. It is part of the the D-RATS software and will work using any group of radios connected to a computer running D-RATS software. However, an established series of RAT-flectors across a region offers anyone running D-RATS software the ability to send and receive email or SMS type messages, or to use real time chat functions within that network and over a larger distance than would be normally possible because of distance or terrain issues relevant to 2 meters.

Seven: As already noted, RAT-flectors can be online via the internet. Once they are put online they are registered as part of a database of other RAT-flectors and can be made available to other users. In this way a very wide area network of D-RATS users can send and receive email or messages. In the US, certain EmComm groups use this feature to have weekly "regional" meetings which include groups from multiple states.

Eight: Portable RAT-flectors can be built on the cheap. One of more of these could be deployed during an emergency and quickly create a fully digital 2 meter RF network. D-RATS software can transmit and receive email and messages, but, with an internet connection it can also send and receive documents. As an example, the operator of any station can create a shared file folder on their computer. This file folder can then contain forms or documents that can be accessed and retrieved by other stations remotely. Such a function could be invaluable if an operator were not immediately available but the forms or documents were needed by others. So long as the station was on the air, documents could be shared. between stations. Documents can also be sent via RF, however I am not clear if documents can be accessed by another station using only an RF
connection.

Nine: D-RATS software offers members of GBARC an online-offline email and messaging system which is not subject to the reliability issues of Winlink. This system offers value for money for club membership fees and greatly expands digital capabilities for a very lost cost. Having a series of RAT-flectors hosted by club members at key locations across Bruce/Grey offers a clubs specific digital capability ad avoids the high cost of installing a digipeater. If our aging repeaters should fail for any reason, a RAT-flector offers a reliable method of sharing information without the need to have a scheduled net. Information can be shared with other members via messaging, chats or email. Email can be sent via the network and retrieved from an inbox on the receiving stations DRATS email service. While online via the internet, we have the ability to connect to other clubs for regional activities.

Ten: DRATS software is FREE to down load and use. For those who continue to drone on about HAM's being cheap, the word FREE should be attractive. Most of the functionality of DRATS, including creating RAT-flectors can be done at very low cost, and likely with existing bits and pieces of equipment already on hand. The internet connections would be "donated" by volunteers hosting a RAT-flector, however traffic from the DRATS network would not typically dictate any increase in bandwidth or speed. Those wishing to ensure off-grid availability of the RAT-flector for emergency use might wish to also invest in a modest solar panel, charge controller and battery. The cost of such items will not generally be burdensome and might be covered through fund raising activities such as raffles 50/50 draws or other such club activities.

However, it is important to note that a DRATS ad hoc network can be quickly established even in the absence of established RAT-fleactors.

For the benefit of those HAM's who missed by not so subtle attempt to draw attention to the most important part of DRATS software, I repeat for emphasis that it is FREE! Free however does not mean cheap or inadequate. In fact I think the value is so enormous we will be fools not to get it and use it for all the reasons already stated.

Having said all that - because I also know that Winlink is the standard for EmComm, there is a case to be made for combining DRATS via 2 meter networks, as described above with WinLink (possible via peer to peer) for regional comms in a grid down situation. As both programs are free to download and use there should be no barrier for experimenting with this kind of digital communications networking.




This is an excellent video demonstrating how to use Winlink peer to peer with a VARA connection. It covers some of the fine points of peer to peer connections. Winlink is notorious for the challenges one faces using it to connect to Winlink nodes via RF.  Peer to Peer connections may offer a better option when possible.

(2021-05-28, 14:31:40)Adam_VE3FP Wrote:

(2021-05-28, 10:42:03)marvin.double Wrote:

(2021-05-27, 18:48:31)marvin.double Wrote: Thank you for your comments John. I have also struggled to use Winlink via and RF gateway. I've had success but more often than not, found the experience inefficient and frustrating. This is one reason I believe that D-RATS offers a simpler more effective way to do email, or messaging via RF locally. Setting up so called RAT-flectors (digital repeaters running on D-RATS) which offer the best of all worlds for digital comm's.

Here are my 10 reasons why GBARC should embrace the use of D-RATS software as opposed to Winlink.

First: RAT-flectors do not need to be on a commercial tower. They can be located on a home QTH in a suitable location. In a home QTH the RAT-flector can be battery powered, and when connected to a solar panel recharged. This would make this small repeater available 24-7-365 with or without mains power.

Second: RAT-flectors can be built using nothing more complex than a Raspberry Pi or any PC running the software, some cheap interface cables and a very basic 2 meter antenna.

Third: the D-RATS software suite includes the digi-peater (RAT-flector) software as part of the FREE program. Those with an advance license could create a cheap digi-peater (RATflector) using the FREE D-RATS software in minutes just by using the FREE software and a cheap 2 meter radio.

Fourth: RAT-flectors can be used on line via the internet and off-line via RF if the internet is unavailable.

Five: D-RATS software has built in email and messaging features which allow for email and messages to be sent and received when the station is active but unintended. These features will work via the internet or via RF connections.

Six: RAT-flectors have "automated" message forwarding capability. This message forwarding capability overcomes the line of sight issues with normal 2 meter transmissions. "Any" station within range, running D-RATS sofware can forward a message across a network of other stations to reach a destination which is out of range to the sender. This feature is not exclusive to RAT-flectors. It is part of the the D-RATS software and will work using any group of radios connected to a computer running D-RATS software. However, an established series of RAT-flectors across a region offers anyone running D-RATS software the ability to send and receive email or SMS type messages, or to use real time chat functions within that network and over a larger distance than would be normally possible because of distance or terrain issues relevant to 2 meters.

Seven: As already noted, RAT-flectors can be online via the internet. Once they are put online they are registered as part of a database of other RAT-flectors and can be made available to other users. In this way a very wide area network of D-RATS users can send and receive email or messages. In the US, certain EmComm groups use this feature to have weekly "regional" meetings which include groups from multiple states.

Eight: Portable RAT-flectors can be built on the cheap. One of more of these could be deployed during an emergency and quickly create a fully digital 2 meter RF network. D-RATS software can transmit and receive email and messages, but, with an internet connection it can also send and receive documents. As an example, the operator of any station can create a shared file folder on their computer. This file folder can then contain forms or documents that can be accessed and retrieved by other stations remotely. Such a function could be invaluable if an operator were not immediately available but the forms or documents were needed by others. So long as the station was on the air, documents could be shared. between stations. Documents can also be sent via RF, however I am not clear if documents can be accessed by another station using only an RF
connection.

Nine: D-RATS software offers members of GBARC an online-offline email and messaging system which is not subject to the reliability issues of Winlink. This system offers value for money for club membership fees and greatly expands digital capabilities for a very lost cost. Having a series of RAT-flectors hosted by club members at key locations across Bruce/Grey offers a clubs specific digital capability ad avoids the high cost of installing a digipeater. If our aging repeaters should fail for any reason, a RAT-flector offers a reliable method of sharing information without the need to have a scheduled net. Information can be shared with other members via messaging, chats or email. Email can be sent via the network and retrieved from an inbox on the receiving stations DRATS email service. While online via the internet, we have the ability to connect to other clubs for regional activities.

Ten: DRATS software is FREE to down load and use. For those who continue to drone on about HAM's being cheap, the word FREE should be attractive. Most of the functionality of DRATS, including creating RAT-flectors can be done at very low cost, and likely with existing bits and pieces of equipment already on hand. The internet connections would be "donated" by volunteers hosting a RAT-flector, however traffic from the DRATS network would not typically dictate any increase in bandwidth or speed. Those wishing to ensure off-grid availability of the RAT-flector for emergency use might wish to also invest in a modest solar panel, charge controller and battery. The cost of such items will not generally be burdensome and might be covered through fund raising activities such as raffles 50/50 draws or other such club activities.

However, it is important to note that a DRATS ad hoc network can be quickly established even in the absence of established RAT-fleactors.

For the benefit of those HAM's who missed by not so subtle attempt to draw attention to the most important part of DRATS software, I repeat for emphasis that it is FREE! Free however does not mean cheap or inadequate. In fact I think the value is so enormous we will be fools not to get it and use it for all the reasons already stated.

Having said all that - because I also know that Winlink is the standard for EmComm, there is a case to be made for combining DRATS via 2 meter networks, as described above with WinLink (possible via peer to peer) for regional comms in a grid down situation. As both programs are free to download and use there should be no barrier for experimenting with this kind of digital communications networking.




This is an excellent video demonstrating how to use Winlink peer to peer with a VARA connection. It covers some of the fine points of peer to peer connections. Winlink is notorious for the challenges one faces using it to connect to Winlink nodes via RF.  Peer to Peer connections may offer a better option when possible.

Thanks for your input Adam. As usual you've made some important points. What excites me about D-RATS is the ability to use it on the internet as well as off-line. I do understand that this feature is also available with Winlink.

The RAT-flector software is built into the software and is easily setup. As this is technically a repeater, only someone with an advance license can host a RAT-flector.

RAT-flectors stations which are online can be located using a simple "ping all stations" command and so it's easy then to setup a regional network. This is being done by some EmComm groups in Georgia and Louisiana as well as other states. It allows these various groups to coordinate and organize training events as share regional information which is useful in their area.

However, as I noted in my comments, RAT-flectors, when connected to a 2 meter rig can also function entirely via RF as a repeater and used to relay messages. This provides an email system which can be used via the internet for local messaging, or in the absence of the internet will continue to function via RF.

I agree that simple is good, and I appreciate that point very much. I like the idea of having a the additional functionality which D-RATS seems to offer and can see using it in combination with RAT-flectors on the internet as a kind of backbone for daily, local club communications. The chat feature in D-RATS is rather unique. If needed during an emergency it could then quickly shift over to an RF only as an email and messaging network.

D-RATS would not replace Winlink which I understand will continue to be the standard for ARES and EmComm in general.

Here's a link to a PDF about D-RATS which makes some of the points about the software features which I've sort of skipped over. DRATS-PDF 


IMO, staying simple is a better idea. NBEMS is one of the options. Works on VHF/UHF FM  as well as HF with NO additional hardware required. It's Open Source and runs on most operating systems. Supports sending and receiving forms such as ICS-213R used by our local Emergency Response groups as well as the ARRL Radiograms.
RAC ARES chose Win-Link as the standard to work with our local Emergency Response groups. I guess anyone taking part in ARES should get more familiar with Win-Link.
More info can be found on http://www.arrl.org/nbems.